[Project] JUST ENUFF

Gotcha. I used a Camaro box and I agree that the ZQ8 would be preferable as mine is a bit "off" on the degree of sweep. You've got the right idea.

And, yes, power steering is your friend when it comes to V8 swaps!

Keep us posted!

Still shopping around for 2" spindles. $129 from ebay has been the best bargain I've found so far. Any suggestions?

Update: boxing in the frame... everything is tack welded. I just gotta lay bead now.
Still playing w/ my geometry.... I think I'm about ready to finalize the design. Please feel free to critique!
(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/satchgeo.jpg)

Also layed out my upper bar axle mounts/coilover mounts. Gonna burn them outta some 16 ga for mock-up. If I like it, I'll do the finals in 1/4" plate.
(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/satchupbracks-2.jpg)

FYI.... upper bar length giving 2.84* of understeer for every 1" of compression

Lower bars converging @ 65* angle....... you guys think this is enough triangualation to keep the axle centered? Opinions and recommendations vary on that.

well, AS is low for my taste, but should be ok, pinion angle change looks like it's going to be pretty bad, should be enough for street/track, so long as you use hefty enough bars, for track only, it's always best to have a dedicated locating device.

It's got about .75* of pinion rotation for every 1" of travel. The longer I make the upper bar, the more change in AS during travel. I can keep the AS more consistent w/ the shorter upper..... kinda split the differences for the compromises I have to make.
In regards to AS. I've read in corner carvers and PT that most setups for handling are in the 50-60% range. Something about AS's counterpart is anti-dive.... braking, SVSA no less than 60"......blah blah. Applying these considerations to a front heavy truck, like mine, has been my current conundrum.

ANYway.... thought I'd let ya know some of the things going thru my little brain when arriving at some of my decisions. None of my decisions are final. I'm still learning.

THANKS.... keep 'em coming!!!!!

Got a few tasks brewing currently. Still gotta weld in the boxed frame

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10084.jpg)
Resurfacing and painting the Irocs

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3677.jpg)

Got the bed loaded and off to the shop:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3686.jpg)

Demolition:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3716.jpg)

Reinforced the lip with 3/8 square rod:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3720.jpg)

Slice, dice. hack, slash. Measure, measure cut.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3724.jpg)

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3726.jpg)

Gotta make & intsall the wheel wells this week. Then do lotsa welding.

In the center portion will eventually be a 12 ga piece of aluminum diamond plate.

Hopefully my spindles will come this week & I'll get those installed.

I gotta get this thing rolling soon!

Nice job on the bed, maybe I'll do something similar.

Got the spindles and installed them. Took some measurements... Baer 3/8" wheel spacers and longer ARP studs were ordered today.

Here's a comparison pic of C-Techs and stock.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3735.jpg)

Here's the lower stance.... a little better... still got room for more.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3760.jpg)

My Irocs came with 3 shabby centercaps. I decided to see what it would look like w/ some slugs of Aluminum I burned out...... I think it'll look okay....

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3736.jpg)

Still poking away at the bed floor. I have most of my parts now. Enough to start making some headway. I have A LOT of fabbing and welding ahead of me. Besides all the tubing and brackets, here is a pic of what I have left to install.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3759.jpg)

I think I'll change my self proclaimed deadline to "by June" Neutral
Now I need to get to work.

nice job on the center caps, looks good.

Thanks. I just have to figure out how I will keep them attached, yet removable. I was thinking 3m emblem adhesive might do the trick if used sparingly (). I'll probably need to make some spare caps until I figure out what will work best. haha

Busy busy.

Masking off wheels to paint them is tedious business.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3788.jpg)

Glad restoring the wheels is finally complete. I probably have about 6 hours into each one when it's all said & done. Here's a pic of them right after I brought them home from getting the tires mounted.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3799.jpg)

Here's the bed w/ the wheel wells in. I took this pic a couple weeks ago. Now I've got it most of the way done. I just have to make the mounting brackets, attack it w/ some seam sealer, install some diamond plate paneling, and slap on some sorta bed liner.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3767.jpg)

I cut out all of the brackets for the 4-link bars and coilovers that will be attached to the rear end. All 1/4" and 3/16" plate. Still have to locate and drill some of the holes and clean them up.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3789.jpg)

Since there are just not enough examples of the Satchell link setup on the WWW. I decided to mock up the configuration before I started welding everything to my frame. I took a BUNCH of measurements to see what my actual numbers would be through-out the range of travel. I started taking it apart a & realized I shoulda snapped some pictures. So...

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3801.jpg)

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3803.jpg)

The bushings max out at about 6" of bump and 6" droop. No Bind. I think I'll be fine

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3808.jpg)

yeah, i think you'll be fine, i hope you wouldn't need that much articulation. haha

so, are you going to be able to retain trhe stock tank? if so, i amy do what youre doing after the challenge.

also, whered you get your link bars, etc? complete list, sources, etc would be very helpful for those of us about to copy you.

Michael

Kick ass!
Can't wait to see that on the frame.

   

s-10driver wrote:
   yeah, i think you'll be fine, i hope you wouldn't need that much articulation. haha

Yep, rock crawling will not be in this truck's future. haha

   

87wildside wrote:
   Kick ass!
Can't wait to see that on the frame.

Me neither. That part starts this coming weekend. I've lolligagged around 2nd guessing myself long enough. I just can't find enough people who have tried the satchell so I can learn from their mistakes. Guinea pig time.

   

dusterbd13 wrote:
   so, are you going to be able to retain trhe stock tank? if so, i amy do what youre doing after the challenge.

also, whered you get your link bars, etc? complete list, sources, etc would be very helpful for those of us about to copy you.

Michael

Maybe I should put a disclaimer in my sig.... ">warning< I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about"

I'll be using a s10 blazer tank located behind the axle. Here's a top view pic after the bed came off:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10015.jpg)

I'll betcha there is only about 8-9" from axle to tank.... "ouch" on the roll-steer! Upper bars determine RS... that's pretty durn short... But I was looking... shift the tank forward, upward and inward. "reshape" the tank to form a tunnel for the drive line (a la sledge hammer), and I betcha you could get a 16-18" long bar between the rail & tank. You'd just hafta come up w/ a good bracketry system for installation. Clearance for the lowers might be an issue too.
I'll post all the parts info soon. I'm a crappy typist, so it'll take a while.

Suspension mocked up. Put the weight on the coils to see how much they'd compress. Still have a pretty long list for things to do, but it felt good to get the weight back on the ass end.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3853.jpg)

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/IMG_3851.jpg)

Currently getting the frame all gusseted, welded & finished off . This week IÂ’ll be prepping & painting everything.

Once the paint dries on the frame, I can start routing lines. I have to install the brackets I made for the relocated e-brake cables.

I’ll be using 3/8” aluminum tubing for fuel line for the ’82-’93 S10 Blazer gas tank located behind the axle.

I have 1/0 battery cable w/ a soldered 3/8” eyelet for relocating the battery under the bed. I’ll be fabbing an aluminum battery tray & mount for securing it.

After these tasks are complete, all the painting is done and I purchase all the proper length grade 8 fasteners for the adjustable suspension, IÂ’ll be able to install the bars and coils and set it back down on the ground.

I plan on just sorta hacking in parts off my old exhaust system to get me to the alignment shop and off to a buddies place to bend me up a true dual exhaust.(reminds me I gotta choose some mufflers and pipe diameters! More $$$ Rolling Eyes ).

Once my exhaust gets scabbed in, I’ll test fit the bed, which incidentally is a 4” raised floor made from 16 gauge galvanized sheet metal and aluminum diamond plate

I decided early in my plan-making to move the bed forward 3/4" and close that gap from the cab. You might have noticed in my calculator settings that I shortend my wheelbase slightly to keep the tires sorta centered in the wells.

I’ll be designing my bed mounts during the testfit. I plan on making some 3/16” aluminum knee bracing for the bracketry.

I have to figure out how IÂ’ll be routing the filler neck for the gas tank and how to trim it all out. I have a few different ideasÂ…but nothing certain.

Still need to make sure my skinned tail-gate still fits after the slashing I just put the bed thru.

Another purchase that will take a little research is a good do-it-yourself bed protector. Probably a roll-on application or something.


Besides all the hundreds of little details I havenÂ’t mentioned and the unforeseen troubles I hope to not encounter along the way, this phase of the project is on the short side. IÂ’m pretty excited to see how this suspension turns out.

In-between coats of paint this week I plan on posting a little more about my particular Satchell design, the geometry, the parts and specs I used for the accessories and my theories of how IÂ’m going to get them all to work. Shocked

>DISCLAIMER: I have no idea what the hell IÂ’m talking about.<

General summary: A Satchell link has desirable characteristics for a certain set of user preferences. It enables you to have roll understeer w/ high anti squat and a low roll center. All without using a panhard, watts or other lateral locating device. The upper bars in PLAN VIEW are forward facing & parallel to eachother. These bars help determine the roll axis during travel Â….unlike the common 3 or 4 link. The lower bars in plan view are attached to the outer edges of the axle tubes & angle equally inward toward the center of the vehicle. These bars share most of the duties with the 3-4 link but also help determine the roll center and keep the rear end centered beneath the vehicle.

Why did I choose this design for my S-10? As you know… the leafs had to go… the V8 created entirely too much axle wrap and the truck handled like…. well… a truck… it wasn’t a safe controllable ride. A lot of people ditch a leaf, use caltracs, blah-blah…. I look at those solutions as more of a band-aid. I wanted to get the ride’s center of gravity lower without sacrificing ground clearance much beyond the frame rails. But I also want to be able to haul a few hundred pounds every so often. Solution? Adj. coil overs. I really wanted to be able to dial in some roll understeer throughout travel. I think understeer will help balance out the tendencies of oversteer w/ having a light ass end. I live in Washington State, where the roads can get suddenly quite wet. Having a rear end that behaves & doesn’t want to kick out going around curves is a safety factor that appeals to me. Besides doing a test & tune or 3, I really have no “intention” of racing this truck. It will see mostly street driving & I intend to have fun (safely) when I drive it. Plus… I just like being different… hahaha.

HereÂ’s a rear suspension parts list:
DR5855B QA1 coilover adjustable shocks
130/250 lb. QA1 Progressive rate springs
Bars are made from both 1.5” & 1” diameter X 1/4” thick DOM tubing (FYI…using this material is overkill)
SD Super pivot adjustable rod ends w/ delrin bushings (not poly) on one end of all the bars. 1-1/8” threaded stud and jam nut.
On the other end of all the bars are currently solid ends w/ poly bushings. IÂ’m not even gonna bother w/ the delrin into these ends, as it wonÂ’t be optimal. I plan on getting some solid spherical rod ends after I get the truck road worthy. I really need a way to let the bars rotate while maintaining their axis without creating bind thru-out travel. Sphericals on both ends of all the bars appear to be the ideal way to accomplish that quest and not put any undue loads on the bars or mounts. Plus, bushing compliance will no longer be of concern.
Most of my 10 gauge to 1/4" plate mounting brackets were designed in Autocad or Opus drawing programs and plasma cut from MAP CNC cutting software on a Lockformer plasma table.

So there is a run-down of the parts I’m installing and why. I’ll start a separate post to discuss the mounting points, geometry, DOFs & my “theories” of how I think they will (& won’t) work together.
As always, I welcome any comments, questions, criticisms, arguments or concerns

i can't argue with that...looks like you've done your homework. lol

So here is the baseline design. These are the actual calculations taken during final mock-up:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/satchell-final.jpg)

IÂ’ve designed the mounts w/ full adjustability. Since there is plenty of room under the bedÂ… why not? Everything IÂ’ve read says the challenging part about running a 4-link, is tuning it.

All 4 of the bars are right around 25+” long. I’m getting around 2.3 degrees per inch of understeer from the UCAs w/ this length. Bar length is definitely an issue w/ a Satchell link. Terry Satchell, when commenting about this config in a Lotus forum, made it a point to stress the importance of having the lower links as close to 45 degrees plan view as possible (to retain axle lateral constraint). This limits the forward mounting point of the LCAs to be no more than half the width of the rear end (minus the width of the brakes). But even then, you have a driveline to clear, so take away that allowance from the total length as well. Those bars are getting shorter & shorter eh? As a rule of thumb w/ any 3 or 4-link design… the longer the bar, the better. This rule primarily applies for roll steer purposes. So in a Satchell link, shortening the SVSA for the lower bars does not effect the roll steer. Problem solved you’d think………….

3 & 4-link design basics dictate that to achieve fairly consistent Anti-Squat thru travel that the upper bars should be approx. 70% the length of the lowers. If I followed this concept, I’d be looking at 14” long uppers…… which would create a shit-ton of roll steer. I decided a flat AS curve was not as important as having low roll steer numbers, so I lengthened the UCAs to give Roll Steer amounts I’d be happy with.
I’ve ended up with a 22% AS decrease for every 1” of bump. I think I ‘ll be okay w/ this. I am inclined to think that my variable rate springs will start compensating for squat. I also don’t mind getting some of the load off the bars during articulation.
Quite frankly, I’m not sure where I stand on the whole “Squat vs. Anti-Squat” debate and how it applies to a V8 S10 under various driving conditions. Both sides bring up good points for the performance handling-minded driver.

Besides designing a Satchell link, another choice IÂ’ve made that seems to be very rarely discussed, is using progressive rate springs. In my case, I chose the 130/250 from QA1. IÂ’ve read that most people seem to be happy running 100# to 150# linear spring rates in their rear coil over S10 application. I decided to fab a bracket that will locate the mounting angles from 85 to 65 degrees in 5 degree increments. This will give my spring rates some adjustability. If the whole variable spring rate gamble does not pay offÂ…. IÂ’ll at least be able to drive the truck to a scale and calculate what I want for linears instead. Right now, IÂ’m sorta skeptical about these progressives. I think it will be too hard of a ride a little ways into compression due to a high spring rate limiting the travel. We shall see.

The Roll Center Height sits @ 11” & goes down 1/4” for every 1” of compression. This seems to lie within acceptable tolerances.

I have nothing in mind for designing in a rear sway bar right now. I donÂ’t think it would be a good idea to use one until I get the suspension tuned to my liking first.

Any updates? I really enjoy reading your posts, learn so much from them.