Stock Frame Stiffening

Courtesy of journeyman

Anyone know of some good sources, ideas or examples of x-bracing the frame in our s-trucks? What are the "weak points" or problem areas of the rails that should be addressed?? Trying to reduce the possibility of frame twist while not adding a bunch of unnecessary weight.

cage. best lightest most effective way.

key points i think that need it most are right behind the uca mounts, and the leading arc of the rear axle 'notch'

X2.
I had the body off and could lift one corner of the frame about an inch before the the opposite corner on the same side would come up. Adding x braces won't really help. It's a popular miss conception among hot rodders.

The end of one frame rail was sitting 3/8" higher than the other when I removed my bed.
After removing the stock suspension & x-members from the cab back, it settled to about a 3/16' difference. V8 torque!

Just mulling it over.....
I wonder how much the leafs effect the twisting of the frame? Especially with the location of that rear shackle mount.

I just noticed this... surfing around this forum: I think every truck in here is running a leaf rear suspension (?). I seen a 3 link project start, but never finish. Is there any pro-touring themed s-trucks out there running a working 3 or 4 link? Combine that question w/ the fact I'm building an apparently "rarely used" Satchell configuration.... makes me wonder whether I'm being unique or stupid. haha

ive tracked, autoXed and daily drive the shit outta my 3 link
so ive sorta finished my 3 link sus?
now im just trying to figure out frame stiffening and brakes.

Would it do any good to weld the seams on the frame?
Seems like the frame isn't fully welded in a lot of places.

A cross brace doubling as a driveshaft loop would be an excellent idea.... 2 birds, 1 stone.

Doh!..... I forgot about you Cactus... you have your own project thread. I've only looked it over about a dozen times! I'm gonna hafta go back in your project thread and see if I can decipher what your rear geometry settings and spring rates are.

Were you able feel any difference with your 3 link in comparison to the leaf set up, as far as frame stiffness goes? Probably hard to tell w/ all the other changes(?)
Since I'm in the middle of my build and I'm basing all my decisions on "theory" at this point. I was wondering, what would you have done differently w/ your rear set up? More AS?... Less roll axis?.. Higher spring rate? Different bar ends, etc?...... Anything like that? The voice of experience speaks volumes for a guy like me.

I noticed after just boxing in my frame that the rails are much more rigid than prior to boxing. I had all the x-members from the cab rearward removed early in the project. It was enlightening how flexible those rails are w/ no bracing. Seems that fully boxing the frame would really benefit the leaf setup.

Bump to the top 

I can't remember where the post was but I recall someone discussing options for bracing/stiffening the front end to reduce flex and improve suspension performance. It was mentioned again in Kenny's AWD thread so I thought I would bump this to see if there was any fresh input. 

Anyone have ideas on how such a brace would be laid out or what it would look like?  I have no interest in doing a cage at this point as I daily drive the truck and don't want to have to wear a helmet every time I drive it   

Funny you mention this now.  I've been picking away at swapping my long bed to a single piece drive shaft, which requires the removal/reloaction of the center bearing x-member, so I've been thinking of the topic.  It isn't for handling for the parts hauler, but being a 1st gen long bed removing any lateral suppport could be detrimental.  That and Al and I are always tossing around ideas for stiffening the chassis while we're staring at my bare frame.

It isn't the front, but a ZQ8 brace should be on the top of any cheap and simple list.  It does a great job of making the most of the height available in the frame by bolting on the highest point it can.

I also was recently browsing through the LSX magazine and saw a picture of Detroid Speed Inc's G-Body front chassis braces.  They triangulate both sides from the skid plate to the front of the frame in essence.  Their website has no installed pictures, but here is some after digging through several pages of google results.



-->More Pictures<--

I've also considered designing a brace to tie the rear LCA mounts together and maybe tie that into the engine crossmember, transmission crossmember, or both.  They're just hanging out there and it would be a good place to mount a skid plate to protect my low hanging oil pan too.

A member on s10 forum did the g-body braces. Joe, something.

Here ya go. This one that hasn't gotten built yet. If you look at the green portion, that was intended to be a 1/8" thickness triangle with a flange turned an holes drilled to match existing holes in the stock frame.
 

You will also wanna install a small bracket on each side from the x-member to the rear lower control arm mount and back to the frame.

By far the most effective bracing I have done is a rear weld-thru. If remove the spare tire x-member and box only that small portion of the frame and drill through the frame with a 2-1/2" hole saw, knock a 2-1/2" pipe through it, then weld the inside and outside on each side of the frame. You need to take cross measurements before you weld it to make sure it is still square. Once it is welded it ain't moving again.....EVER! My first gen would bend the bed into a diamond shape if I backed one wheel onto a curb with my swaybar adjusted to full stiff and both wheels would make contact. After this mod, backing up on the same curb would pick the other wheel off the ground (full stiff) and the bed would be nice and square. Amazing handling improvement. You can do this anywhere you have room.

On a side note: Fully boxing a frame does almost nothing for torsional strength, but does a lot for vertical load bearing. We have plenty of load capacity as long as the frame isn't rusted out. We could actually use I-beam steel for our frames with these weld throughs (lighter?)

one of the s10 desert runner aftermarket companies makes a nice lca rear hardpoint brace.
the offroad guys see a lot more stress than we (probably) ever will, so taking a look at what they find too flimsy (the neck down right before the cab) and how they get around that issue etc is always helpful. ive found several threads on desertdimes to be a helpful idea base.
they even use the same frames as us!

one of the s10 desert runner aftermarket companies makes a nice lca rear hardpoint brace.
the offroad guys see a lot more stress than we (probably) ever will, so taking a look at what they find too flimsy (the neck down right before the cab) and how they get around that issue etc is always helpful. ive found several threads on desertdimes to be a helpful idea base.
they even use the same frames as us!

Any links? You'd be amazed at how much that mount squirms around with sticky tires. Another thing on that front brace is how it acts like steering box stiffener....

Found it...... http://bajacustoms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=73&category_id=11&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=80 Talk about overkill! We don't need anything that beefy. Beautiful piece fo sho!

found that project I was thinking about - http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f30/project-v8-s10-ss-387800/index15.html

Damn, that cat left off the most important part......he needs a cross brace welded in there and the single fastener on each end creates pivot points. The angles are a bit small too(not enough triangulation). I'd be willing to bet that setup doesn't do much more than add weight to the truck. A couple of small changes and he'd be good to go though

^ no argument here,

just posted it up as the initial reply was about g-body frame braces and that's the only time I've seen it done on an s-series.

^ no argument here,

just posted it up as the initial reply was about g-body frame braces and that's the only time I've seen it done on an s-series.

There's no doubt in my mind that you know. I thought I might spout off before some of the less technical guys start bolting spare swingset pieces to their chassis

I thought I might spout off before some of the less technical guys start bolting spare swingset pieces to their chassis

What's wrong with that? 

I dont have any information on improvement, but my intercooler mount doubles as a frame brace.

I made some sandwich plates to fit between the front sway bar and frame, then ran square toob between the two sides.


I really like the idea above with the hole saw and round tube through the frame. I've been noticing that on wranglers, trailblazers, full size trucks, everywhere I look it seems.

I really like the idea above with the hole saw and round tube through the frame. I've been noticing that on wranglers, trailblazers, full size trucks, everywhere I look it seems.

It works very well. It is quite a bit stronger than butt welding 2x3 crossmembers. You can also add corner gussets for even more strength

I really like the idea above with the hole saw and round tube through the frame. I've been noticing that on wranglers, trailblazers, full size trucks, everywhere I look it seems.

only issue I see with this is the retention of water.

most trucks ive owned with this method of frame bracing (factory) suffers from extensive rust damage from water being retained inside the tube.

Awesome - thanks for all the replies!

I've seen the G-body brace - too bad their frames are wider (they are, aren't they?). That bajacustoms piece is sick but I have a feeling it weighs a tonne.

I really like the idea above with the hole saw and round tube through the frame. I've been noticing that on wranglers, trailblazers, full size trucks, everywhere I look it seems.

only issue I see with this is the retention of water.

most trucks ive owned with this method of frame bracing (factory) suffers from extensive rust damage from water being retained inside the tube.

I haven't seen that yet. Road salt maybe? I was so disturbed to hear this that I drove to town and stuck my head under every truck I could find....... nothing yet. Maybe it's just this part of the country. The fix should be easy enough... just weld a cap on each end using the pieces that were drilled out of the frame.

 That bajacustoms piece is sick but I have a feeling it weighs a tonne.

This is where spare swingset pieces actually would work. If you get to see these on a second gen F-body it is stunning how cheesy but effective those pieces are

I really like the idea above with the hole saw and round tube through the frame. I've been noticing that on wranglers, trailblazers, full size trucks, everywhere I look it seems.

only issue I see with this is the retention of water.

most trucks ive owned with this method of frame bracing (factory) suffers from extensive rust damage from water being retained inside the tube.

I haven't seen that yet. Road salt maybe? I was so disturbed to hear this that I drove to town and stuck my head under every truck I could find....... nothing yet. Maybe it's just this part of the country. The fix should be easy enough... just weld a cap on each end using the pieces that were drilled out of the frame.

I dont know how effective rubber caps should be compared to a welded cap, but the tracker had rubber caps on the open ends. they did nothing.

but yes, these are all on trucks around this rust belt I'm used to.

^ sounds like it was holding water in instead of out. Rustoleum, POR-15??