Chassis Build Up & Design

They look to be significantly different actually.  Big "might" be adaptable, but I'd stick with the 2nd gen. And actually the 98+ are different as well.

Obviously cheaper at PG if you can find them, but here is a pair from S10 Warehouse.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-SPEED-CLUTCH-PEDAL-CHEVY-S10-TRUCK-BLAZER-XTREME-98-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5ae00df14dQQitemZ390306066765QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Started taking measurements for the transmission mount last night, but quickly realized it would be easier to pull the cab.  With the lift tied up at the moment with the Fybridero I started checking clearances in the engine bay.  Both coil sets clear great. Dropping the engine an inch helped clear the brake booster and running the heavy duty heater box rather than the evaporator style for A/C gave me tons of room on the passenger side.  If I don't want to notch the engine cross member I should really move the engine back a half to an inch and that would require notching out the heater box to clear the head some, but not significantly.  I'm OK with that compromise.  I will wait until I settle on final drivetrain placment before I actually cut.


P5230006 by TheHarley, on Flickr


P5230009 by TheHarley, on Flickr


P5230011 by TheHarley, on Flickr


P5230012 by TheHarley, on Flickr

I also bolted up the manifolds to see how the steering shaft fit.  Word on the street is taking off the heat shield will allow it to fit...  Definitely doesn't with the shield on, but with the shaft so close I'd prefer it to stay.  Still brainstorming on that.  Thoughts were to shift the engine over another inch or so, but that starts really pushing clearances on the passenger side especially the exhaust manifold to the control arm.  Since I'm already thinking I'll be notching the heater box I'm not so concerned about that.  Tubular upper control arms would help.  That may drive me to pickup a set from UB sooner than later to see how much it does help.


P5230014 by TheHarley, on Flickr

Bumped the suspension up to check clearances from UCA to manifold.


P5230007 by TheHarley, on Flickr[/img]

What on earth is a Fybridero? A fiero grafted to the front and rear subframes of a firebird with some custom subfram connectors?

^ lol I was wondering the same thing.

Nice progress Harley. I'm loving that idea of just using the cab floor for mockup. I might have missed it, but what do you have planned for the rear suspension?

I was hoping someone would ask that...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/west-coast-2009-challenger-awd-fiero-hybrid/10519/page1/

Al (Blizazer) is the new owner of that wonder.  Our mutual friend, Bryce was the builder.  Al and him had been talking about a project like that for years, so Al was probably the best guy to buy and continue refining the project. Bryce is also the guy who has helped me purchase the S10 and Audi out in Portland.

For the rear suspension my plan is to do a parallel 4 link and watts link, but the details are very much in the air at the moment.  I've got a lot of planning ahead of me, so I've been tackling what I can accomplish easiest on the overall project with my current knowledge and trying to fit in reading and research as I can.  Which I've been slacking on.  I do know it will be a full backhalf to free me from the constraints of the stock frame.

Thanks for the mention there Harley. Its a fun toy, but distracting me from other important things, like S-trucks.   

Holy Shit.

Holy Shit.

^ what he said.

It's fun to drive, break, and tinker around with.  That is for sure.

Pretty much posting to get a second opinion.

After looking at the clearances from control arms to manifolds I'm leaning even more toward the tall ball joint conversion with tubular uppers at this stage in my build.  I'm pretty certain I'm going to go with the UB Machine UCA and PP S10 tall upper and lower ball joints.  Been doing plenty of reading to make sure my money won't be going to waste since I'm losing a renter next month and don't have a replacement lined up.

The other options I'm tossing around, to save coin, are the speedway arms and C10 balljoints.  Both would save me some cash.  The C10 wouldn't give me as much extra height, so for only $16 more I'm inclined to just go ahead with the S10 pair.  The speedway arms would save me quite a bit more than the ball joint, but from what I'm seeing the UB arms are better designed for the S10s and metric chassis with the work that Duster has done.  Am I correct on that?  Do they account for the necessary caster and camber for our trucks?  The only other thought on those is they are shorter which would help reduce shims for alignment, but at this point I'm guessing I'll be at about a 4" drop total without the drop spindles, so it might not be necessary.  Just worried about making sure I have as much room as I can to move the engine around.

I'd like to go adjustable uppers in the future to eliminate the need for shims and Ryo's talk of custom uprights has me dreaming too, but funds and time for that at this point are not available.

Also what has been the price for the UB arms?  I'm seeing ~$50 for their standard arms on the site, but seeing people paying $65 other places.

I have been asking about caster changes on tubular uppers for about two years now, and still don't have a straight answer from anyone.

As for the cost savings of the C10 UBJs, it's higher than that if you just grab the speedway branded ball joints, which I believe will be Elgin's now that I know that's what their branded tie rods are. Last I saw they were about $17ea.

Last thought to seal the deal on getting tubulars: heat. The 4.3s tend to cook the UCA bushings and ruin them, imagine what that thing is going to do to them.

For whatever reason I was thinking the PP Ball Joints were $50 for the pair, but after checking back on the site I now see it is each.  That definitely pushes me toward getting part store C10 ball joints for now if I run UB arms at least.  Still getting the tall lowers from PP though.

I'm also still wondering about the control arm length.  All my drop is from the spring, so from what I understand I will need as short of an arm as possible to avoid stacking lots of shims for my alignment as well as the increased camber gain the shorter arms gets me.  Between that and the fact I can get the BJs and arms quickly from speed way for less than $150, I'm leaning that direction too.

Any other contributtions are appreciated.  I'm still shopping and won't pull the trigger until the beginning of June.

when i designed the arms, i actually put them on with 3ish inch drop coils. (cut stockers, LCA 3/4 inch from frame at bumpstop pad)

the alignment to -1.5 camber, and 7 caster, took only 2 shims on the front and 4 on the back.

we designed a bit more caster into these than stock. unklnown how much, but when compared to stock the UBJ mound is about 1/2 inch rearward.

the UB arms were origonally intended for the c10 joints, as they were designed well before PP came out with the tall ball joints.

if i remember right, theyu should be abouty 120 fdor the pair.

Michael

how much caster will be affected by overall spindle height as well (tall balljoints will take away caster on equivalent arms)

I can't remember how tall the spindle alone is at the moment(early morning after a long night) but pretending it's 7"(kinda close) and you add one inch with tall ball joints(the max you can) then the difference in the caster will be almost exactly .5°

I'm also still wondering about the control arm length.  All my drop is from the spring, so from what I understand I will need as short of an arm as possible to avoid stacking lots of shims for my alignment as well as the increased camber gain the shorter arms gets me. 

http://www.fme-cat.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?brand=MC&pt=Control%20Arm%20Shaft%20Kit&PartNumber=K6218

Moog sells an offset UCA mount bar. May not be useful if you go with toob control arms or spherical rod ends, but for a rubber/poly stock arm it keeps you from having to shim as far when dropping.

Huh, I didn't know moog had one too.

I'm also still wondering about the control arm length.  All my drop is from the spring, so from what I understand I will need as short of an arm as possible to avoid stacking lots of shims for my alignment as well as the increased camber gain the shorter arms gets me. 

http://www.fme-cat.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?brand=MC&pt=Control%20Arm%20Shaft%20Kit&PartNumber=K6218

Moog sells an offset UCA mount bar. May not be useful if you go with toob control arms or spherical rod ends, but for a rubber/poly stock arm it keeps you from having to shim as far when dropping.

I did think of that when shopping around, but it makes my clearance to manifold problem worse.  Trying to avoid moving the control arm toward the engine is a primary concern.

and a shorter arm helps with camber gain

You might consider just stowing away the extra cash to get the fully adjustable uppers mate. It's only like 4x as much $$$.

Don't think I'll come across that extra 3x$$ anytime soon while moving ahead with the rest of the project.  The arms that I've found out there adjust from 8-10" according to SC&C.  From what I've been reading on the internet arms in the 7-9" range would be more useful which pushes me toward custom and down that avalanche towards full custom front suspension.

I'm crossing my fingers that when/if that time comes the off the shelf arms and ball joints can be repurposed to another project or pawned off on some other aspiring PTS10.